Emmanuel Eleyae: Welcome to Eleyae Systems Podcast, Journey To An Eight Figure E-Commerce Business. I'll be your host, Emmanuel Eleyae, CEO and founder of Eleyae Systems, where we build systems that build brands online and help e-commerce entrepreneurs go from 10k a month to a 100k a month to a million dollars a month in revenue without wasting a fortune on ad spend or working themselves to death to do it so that they can finally pay themselves what they deserve out of their business. We do this because we have built our own e-commerce brands. We've done over 50 million in revenue for our own brands and our client's brands in our agency, and we're just getting started. These systems that we teach, they work, they are effective, they're repeatable, they're scalable. They've worked for our businesses, they've worked for our clients' businesses, and they'll work for your businesses too. Welcome to Eleyae Systems Podcast, Journey To An Eight Figure E-Commerce Business. In this episode I”ll be interviewing Kevan Smith, the founder of Epiphany Content. He has a passion for creativity and artistry and he has been able to turn that passion into his profession. You’ll hear him talk about the difficulties that come with creating content for clients and how he has developed his own techniques to avoid those difficulties, make it easier on himself. You’ll also hear about his specific process for working with clients. His goal is to tell a story with his content that will resonate with people. He also goes in depth about how he distinguishes himself from other creators. He makes content that is unique but still holds up to a high standard. You can tell just how passionate he is about his work and the things he creates. I know you’ll get a lot out of this conversation that I had with Kevan, so without further ado, here’s Kevan Smith.
Emmanuel: Thank you for doing this, man. I really appreciate it.
Kevan Smith: Oh, it's my pleasure, Emmanuel. I just, um, wish I would've, uh, been in a position to meet with you earlier, but, um.
Emmanuel: It's okay. Yeah. Being busy is a good thing, right?
Kevan: Well, being busy and I've just been making this transition into, uh, like an office environment.
Emmanuel: Oh, okay.
Kevan: So this is my first time having, uh, like a, a shared office or co-working space with a shared studio, um, in the facilities here. So it's, uh, something I've just, I was waiting until yeah, the new year to do so. So it was really difficult to, yeah. For, yeah, to do anything business-wise um, before I was in this stage of the business.
Emmanuel: Ah, was, has it panned out the way you wanted? Because it's one thing to like make a move and think about the move and plan the move. We always have a reason for making a move. And now here you are on the other side. You've made the move.
Kevan: It has far exceeded um, anything that I could have hoped for or expected, it's hard to even know where to begin, um, as a creative, uh, this space. I didn't know that spaces like this existed. And so, um, the canvas itself, you know, I consider the business or the building, uh, a seven floor canvas with a roof terrace and an incredibly, uh, Interesting, diverse areas, not just to be inspired, but to create and to, um, generate narratives. And I feel like the environment has a huge part to play in communicating some of the, um, you know, maybe the peripheral or even subconscious elements of, of, of any message, of any piece of content. So being in a place that facilitates such a range of, of narratives and at such an impeccably, you know, incredibly high, uh, like just standard is, um, it's just really freeing and empowering, uh, as, as a creative and, um, and the people are just fantastic. And so, uh, that combination, yeah, it's just been a shot in the arm. I'm really, really pleased, uh, with, with how things are, are working out.
Emmanuel: What was it that you had before this for some context here?
Kevan: Well see I had, um, two years ago I was working, I had a home studio. Okay. Um, and I am, uh, one of my benchmarks, uh, is kind of quality is, is, is lighting. Um, it's kind of some of the more, um, technical artistic elements that most creators, uh, gloss over. They kind of are more into either editing and transitions or graphics, but people don't spend time refining, um, things like audio quality and the quality of flight. And so in my home studio, I was able to really establish, uh, you know, very high, kind of high end, recognizable, uh, kind of brand recognition through my studio. Um, which I then left a year, yeah. Just over a year ago. And so, um, I took on this project, um, which was slightly unrelated to my core offerings. And so, um, I thought that I could just, yeah. You know, make it work without the studio, but without having an environment that, uh, was in line with my, um, kind of like the recognition of my brand, my values, and, you know, the need, the things that I need to facilitate creativity. Uh, I was really struggling, um, for this past year, so now having a space that just far supersedes, uh, anything that I had, uh, before, it's, uh, incredibly rewarding. And yeah, it's just, it's, it's, yeah, it's definitely something that's been excellent for the business.
Emmanuel: Well, good. Well, I appreciate the explanation. I can say, yeah, it was worth the weight , which is good news.
Kevan: Oh, good, good, good. Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, definitely. I felt, um, I, I. You know, it means a lot to me that someone would even put my name forward to say that this is someone that you should, uh, connect with and communicate with. And I was, yes. It was really unfortunate at that timing. I was extremely ill actually when the first, uh, first iteration, when we first talked in, uh, in early or mid-December, um, at who was really, really ill at the same time as moving. And so it made, that was really unsettled, that, uh, that I wasn't able to, uh, yet to meet with you, especially after you said that you'd be happy, you know, to Yeah. Yeah. Pay, pay for my time. And so that says a lot about you. And so to me it was very important that we, uh, that we have this meeting and Yeah. That I help you however I can.
Emmanuel: Yeah, it's, uh, I tremendously respect and I respected you for even asking cause I, I recognize there's a, especially on LinkedIn nowadays, which is what is disappointing me with LinkedIn, that they don't do something about this. There's a lot of just literally spam in the messages, people are connecting with you purely to spam you in the messages. And so I, I, I worry every day, how many genuine connections am I missing? Like genuine message, like my actual friends or colleagues or people that I would listen to. But there's so much noise now I can't tell. Oh wait, is this a, a message from someone, you know, some random person or somebody I actually know, sorry, not messages, but connection requests. Because I'm so used to now just, no, no, no, no. Cause of all these appointments centers. So, um, so I'm, I respected you for even putting up the boundary. Like, listen, I get it, you wanna meet, but time is valuable and I respect that. So yeah. Kudos to you. Cause it's also not easy. I'm sure it felt uncomfortable. It feels uncomfortable to put up that boundary.
Kevan: Yeah. When people, uh, that's one of those things that I really look out for anytime someone says, um, if I can pick your brain. Um, I, yeah, I've kind of learned, uh, over, over the years that it's not really something that's an investment in my time, and, so yeah, and you're right.
Emmanuel: Yeah. Because literally when someone says that, can I pick your brain? They're, it's one of the most selfish requests. And I had to learn that the hard way. I was like, why? I need to start changing this around my request. And then, so that's why I now even at least send the questions ahead of time. So, and then say, Hey, look, if you don't even want to meet, that's fine. Just reply. And then can I do anything for you? Because it truly is one way, this idea of pick your brain conversation, or a coffee date they call it, or a coffee lunch. It is purely one way. Like, why would I do that? You know? So yeah. Anything that, and again, if there's anything I can do for you, I'm, I'm a open book, you know, so I don't know if there's anything I can offer, but as we talk, please probe me for things that I can help you with too. I'm open to that.
Kevan: Yeah, most definitely. Well, I guess it'd be a good, uh, it'd be good to have a bit of an understanding of maybe your core offering or like, yeah what, uh, how do you, what market do you serve?
Emmanuel: Yeah. So really this is more of a blossoming, if you will, or a course correction. Call it a midlife crisis if you want to. But, uh, I was the opposite of creative for almost a 20 year career. Right. So, uh, but, and I'm just now rekindling this, so this all triggered because I went to a friend of mine who got diagnosed with stage four cancer and he had what's called a death cafe where we sit around sipping coffee, talking about death. And the whole point of it is not to be concerned with death, cause we're all gonna be dying. We're all going not be dying. We're all going to die. We're dying from the moment we're born, but it's what we do with life that really is the privilege that we have as humans. We're the only animals that know we're going to die. So I realized, wait, if I were given a six month sentence, would I be sitting here running Facebook ads? No, I would not. Would I be sitting here doing the things I did today looking at my, and so it just completely changed my perspective. And I left there with this idea of, you know what? I've wanted to be creative. Like, I have this painting. I had an exercise one time. I, I put it on the wall because I remember sitting down trying to make that painting, and I felt so uncomfortable the whole time. But I also felt liberated. And the person that was with me, she painted that one below it. I need to uncover that. But hers looked good. Mine looked awful. And all I did was judge myself, criticize myself. But when I looked back at the moment, she helped explain to me. But you were smiling the whole time. You had a good, you were, I was in the zone. I was. I was relaxed, and so I went to a painting lesson and the lady said something that was so remarkably profound to me. She said, uh, I asked her, her beautiful paintings that she made. She said, I don't know what I'm going to paint when I sit down to paint. And I said, well, what do you mean by that? She said, I, I don't know. I let the brushes and the canvas and how I'm feeling just come out onto the, the canvas and, and I was just like, you don't have a plan like me as a former military, MBA, like all these, all these roles where I have to, every single moment of my day is structured. And it blew my mind that she can create something so well, let's call it what it commercially viable. It was professional. It was an excellent piece of work of art, came out of how I'm feeling? It shocked me. And, and, and then she said something else that was profound. She, she had me just do basically drills. She said, do a brushstroke, then do less water and just keep doing this simple little brushstroke over and over and over, but do with your left hand instead of your right. What it did, and, and I noticed literally time just like stopped as I was doing this, said, well, now you're, it's more, it felt meditative. I was tapping into my subconscious and I was like, I want this. I want this. If I could do what I've done here more in my life, if I could do it all day, I would be fulfilled. And that's when everything broke this for me. I want to be, I felt like I was creative. I remember in high school, even though I thought I was a business person, I started a business doing web design. But when I look back at it, I was really trying to be creative. It's just being a creative wasn't, y’know, how you gonna get a job with that son? How you gonna get a job with that? Like young man? Like you can't survive. So it was just pushed down. So I kind of, and I like writing. I like explaining it, as you can tell, probably already. I love talking and speaking and teaching. So I was like, you know what? This is what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life. I'm gonna be creative. And that's what triggered me to make the post that I made. And I asked for help. Hey, does anyone know people that are good at this that'd be willing to just speak into me? Cause honestly, as I look at a 40 year old man and I'm sitting here like I'm gonna be creative, I have no clue what that means. I have no clue what to do. I have no clue what direction to take it. I also have responsibilities. I've got a business that I'm running, a team that is doing something different, not entirely creative. I do have, I have a team of 12, eight of them are creatives, video editors, designers, and we have the ability to shift to a video production company. And so I was like, I can actually probably even make a living doing this where it's part of my, my job where we're making videos and creative. So that's what I've been on this journey trying to figure out. But at its core, like I'm taking painting classes now, I'm going to film school to learn script writing and the filmmaking process, I'm doing the drawings and I'm doing copywriting and writing books and I have ideas for all kinds of stuff. So I've just gone all in on this basically. So long-winded answer to your question, but hopefully that gives enough context to kind of pull from on where I'm at.
Kevan: So who does your team, uh, who do they serve or who, who is your, your target kind of demographic?
Emmanuel: Yeah, so right now what we work for are e-commerce companies, cause I started a e-commerce business back in 2013 with my sister that we scaled pretty big and it does quite a bit of several million dollars a year in revenue. And then I peeled off to run an make an agency to help other brand owners and inventors and creators who have a physical product do the same thing we did. So I have an agency that helps them scale their brands and our big catch is that we build systems that build brands online and help e-commerce brands go from 10k a month to a 100k a month to a million dollars a month in revenue without wasting a fortune on ad spend or working themselves to death to do it with our proven systems. So that's my big tagline that I use. So yeah, e-commerce entrepreneurs, so pretty much if they're selling on Shopify and use Klaviyo for email marketing, that's our perfect customer.
Kevan: Well then where does your current, um, ambition fit in? Um, is that something that you're marrying um, the two or?
Emmanuel: Yes. So how I'm marrying is, so we have what's called ROI Creatives now, and I can actually pull that up. What I'm, what I was thinking is in the process of building this agency, running Facebook ads, running Google ads, helping people with their website, helping people with their email marketing, I learned very quickly two years ago, I can't rely on the client to have content that works in a social environment or as an advertisement. It's a very different thing than taking product shots and making your brand look as good as possible. Two very different things. Marketing, communication versus branded communication. So they would send me this content to use as an ad that's just a picture, a gorgeous, and it'd be a gorgeous picture, but it's of a pot nd I'm like, people are gonna swipe right by that. You know, you spent, yeah, you spent 10 grand on this photo shoot and had all these models and all, but everything that you made content for was about you. And people don't go onto social media to learn about you. They're going to social media to laugh, to be entertained, to be inspired, right, to be educated. I need content like that. And they're like, I don't have that. So anyway, I was like, look, let me just send me what you have. We will mash that up into new content. And so I hired a team of editors and a team of creatives. And so we started building content. So then what I started looking at is people would leave us from doing email marketing, Facebook ads, Google ads, the marketing, but they would still keep our creative service. I didn't even have a service. They were like, look, can I just pay you to keep making us content? Cause we would make them 30 pieces of creative every month. And that was the clue. So I built out this program called ROI Creatives, where I made it a standalone. So now what we'll do is we'll do content for people where we will take what they already have and turn it into social media creative, graphics. So we'll take the boring stuff or the branded stuff and turn it into interesting pithy content, right? That's what we, where we were at. Then I took it one step further after this epiphany and started this production studio where literally they were like, I don't even have branded content. I never did a photo shoot. So I brought a, one of our clients agreed and she flew out and I actually hired a director, I hired a, a DP, I hired a sound guy. And it was the most fun and scary experience at the same time. Cause I've never done a production ever. And here I am with all these people that are asking me questions like, Hey, how do we block this scene? And how, I was like, scene, what's a scene? Right? And how do we bring? This guy had a red camera and I'm sitting here and hang, holding on to it. I didn't know how expensive the thing was, I was like, oh my gosh, this is how much? Right. I'm learning on the fly as we go, right? But either way, we got so much footage out of it and I had such a good time. I was like, maybe that's how I can marry this. Cause if I could do shoots every day, I would love my life nonstop. And then I have a team of editors. What I noticed was within a week we turned around over a hundred assets. Right, because I already have an editing team. So it's like we could almost real time be doing shoots and then editing the, we also took product photos. We did interviews with her. We had a hair and makeup guy who worked on Whitney Houston back in the day. This guy's a professional. He came out cause I'm in LA so I've got a lot of these resources. So I was like, why don't I just marry all the two, these e-commerce brands that need content. And you know, even UGC is a big thing. We can get all these UGC creators and all this, these studios and locations and film crew type people. Just marry the two. And then I get to do my creative bit. And so then I took it a step further and said, Hey wait a second, what if I don't even have to? So that got tough. So I even flew out to Houston to interview someone. But it was very intense to do a shoot. I learned that the hard way. Over two months I was like, ooh, this takes a lot of time.
Kevan: What about the strategy? Who's, um, who's kind of tasked with the, with the vision?
Emmanuel: Vision of the shoot?
Kevan: Yes. Um, or even just kind of pulling out, um, I guess maybe the, yeah, the core narrative. Like what is important to the, to the client or how you're gonna shape, um, yeah their, their, their likeness. Uh, who's
Emmanuel: Yeah. That was the best part. We actually were already doing that as part of our normal course of, cause we're a digital market agency, right? So we were already starting and that was kind of my shtick is that hey, we're gonna do a production for you, but we're not a production house that's gonna make the best quality story. We're a marketing agency. We're gonna start with, you need Facebook ads, you need Google ads, you need this. So we started with that and I actually created a, uh, document with my team, that had, a list of all the assets we wanted to built. So we worked from there back and said, okay, what are we gonna build for the client that we need to market them? And then let's build a shot list and a script. We actually built a scripted, uh, day in the life kind of, uh, a shot. So when we actually had the shoot, there were four different locations, if you will, or scenes or that we shot. One was a Vogue style, 73 questions where we just interviewed her sitting down talking, the set then we broke that set down, moved over to the kitchen and did a round table where we asked Q&A and we, we had a studio audience and we actually Q&A asked them questions, and then we broke down that and went into the bathroom and recorded different things. So there's a Vogue style, here's the interview style that we did. Then we also did a story. So this is her opening the bag, pouring the tea in, drinking it, then having her work out. Then we went from there to the bathroom and showed her getting into the tub, bath bomb, the whole nine, all in one day. And then we took her outside. This was the day before. Took her outside, did a a glamorous perfume style shoot. So that was all slow motion footage and her just walking through the garden. We did that.
Kevan: Who is she?
Emmanuel: She is Tish. She's the head of um, she runs a CBD bath, bath bomb business. So she can't advertise. So she needed to do an organic strategy, need a lot of content. That's why she was open to this. So we, we came up with the strategy, but I don't, the only reason I'm overexplaining is because I'm not entirely sure what you mean by strategy. You may be thinking something different than I am.
Kevan: Well, I'm more, yeah. Meaning what part of the, the team. Like what, so seeing that you want to go on this, uh, this journey of, you know, focusing on creative I'm wondering how much, um, I guess your team, how much do you delegate and how much of, um, yeah the, the strategy, the, the vision, how much of that comes down to you? Or do you just kind of let your team more or less, uh, develop that side of things? Like what, what's, what's your role?
Emmanuel: That is a great question. That is very insightful cause it's influx. So, and that's actually literally something I'm, uh, I ran headfirst, like something, hopefully if we get to talk again, you'll learn more about me. And I just burst into stuff when I finally am like, I'm doing this. And so I'm having to step back and say, who's doing that? How are we doing that? And so it has seemed a little scattered. So we made all that content and it was overwhelming for the client. There was too much. Right. So we made all a ton of it. And so,
Kevan: Did you have, let me stop you for a second. Did you have a vision of, was there a core narrative and then maybe like, you know, you're I guess as a marketing company you probably would already have that in place. But like, we're gonna have on this platform, on this day, this message, and it's gonna build up to, um, either this product launch or tie back in, uh, so that after we, uh, inform, you know, the, the audience and you know, build trust, uh, in a relationship, then we can get them to understand this critical component, um, four weeks down the road. Like, did, did you, um, have a roadmap, uh, laid out, um, when you created, uh, this breadth of content.
Emmanuel: And that's a good distinction because I actually deliberately did not do that because, and honestly, I had a hypothesis that my goal was how much content I can make in the shortest amount of time. The idea is like, I call it ROI creatives. I was saying, what is the least amount of effort, time, and money we can put into something to get the most content? And by inverse, if we put a lot of time, money, and energy into it, what is the most amount of content we can generate? So I came up with this idea and, and as opposed to like, you go to a production company and they make you one video for 15 grand. And I was like, I want to be the opposite. I'm gonna make you thousands of videos for 15 grand was kind of my thought, thought process. And so that was what I was trying to do. And you probably already know as I see the way you reacted and you probably already know where this leads. And it's just like, because of that, it ended up being a whole, like you can see all this content we made. Right? And we even scheduled it for her in a social media platform, but she ended up having the stuff and it was, to your point, disjointed. It was kind of like, yes, you have a lot of content, but uh,
Kevan: One of the things that I've found is that, um, yeah, kind of giving a client a bunch of amazing content, um, is more of a burden, um, than, than, than an assistance because they've, they've invested and, but they're not quite sure how to leverage it. What my understanding is that, well, I keep, the consensus that I came to, um, you know, maybe about a year and a half, two, two years ago, was that clients need the results that content brings. They don't need the content. And so it's kind of my job to set a structure in place. Uh, and that's why I have to be really clear on what is success for this client? You know, like what are they, what are they looking to achieve? And all of a sudden it's almost like it's my responsibility to facilitate attaining their goals and, you know, seeing their vision come together, um, because they have other things to do, um, all the way down. So you can create great content and post it for them. But a big part of it is, uh, the conversations that it generates and clients don't typically have the time or the energy or the interest to even engage in the conversations that great content, um, kind of facilitates. And so it, you almost have to, yeah, really like a small child, you know, like protect them and think every possibility in a way that's gonna not, you know, hamper them at all. Otherwise they're gonna see this investment yeah, as burdensome in a way, even though it's supposed to be empowering to 'em. That's a big focus of, of mine, yeah, with clients now is how can I, um, put a structure together that is, uh, going to eliminate any constriction in terms of the things that they're incredibly adept at, um, or that they love about their business. How can I like work with them in a way that we don't ever, um, encroach upon the things that they love or the things that they find easy in their business.
Emmanuel: Floored by that, blown away. Thank you for saying that because you've crystallized what it took me months of beating my head against the wall to figure out. But in a way that, cause you know, you hear that people say that and that was why I was deliberately saying, no focus, you need a focus. I was like, no, I want quantity over quality. I would actually say that I want a lot of quantity and quality, good quality and just give you a lot. You have a, but I couldn't quite figure out why they would then not use it. Cause even the second client, I flew all the way out to Houston, we did a whole bunch of stuff for 'em, had a 360 cam, drone footage shoots. We interviewed the entire team, didn't use any of it. Built in landing page and everything and so to your point, you're right. What is the result they're looking for and build towards that. Which actually is liberating cause it makes less work for me.
Kevan: Yeah, I don't think we, you have to like put in so much cause it's not about the things that, you know, you or I, you know, are captivated by or inspired or intrigued by content wise. Um, it's essentially everybody has someone that they're trying to, you know, impress or someone that they look up to that they want validation from. Um, and so this idealized version of themself and it's, I mean, it could be a high school basketball coach, you know, it's like, it doesn't have to be, you know, like, like I just wanna be the biggest, best I wanna be Louis Vuitton. You know, it's like, it's more about understanding, um, how this individual, you know, wants to see themselves or their business represented. And it's usually, you know, quite simple. And I find that, uh, obviously status is, is always, is going to be something that, you know, people, um, aspire towards and I don't believe that status comes through technology or that, that it comes through, um, like, like incredible editing and special effects. Uh, I think that if someone can communicate the things that they love in a beautiful light, uh, with, with, with crystal clear, you know, audio, this simple, uh, refinement, at least my clients people, you know, that's, this is, that's, you know, these are my core values. So maybe these are the people that I look to, um, to work with or who I resonate with. It's about simply building this consistency that reflects the one or two things that are really important to them. So some people, they do wanna be flashy and they want that, you know, Lamborghini, you know, image. But I think that that's also, it's very simple, you know, they like a Lamborghini and a Rolex, you know, and like attractive young people, um, like being impressed by them. Uh, and, but, but I just don't, I don't think it has to be sprawling, but all of the content that's structured to come out over time has to reinforce that value or whoever that person is secretly trying to live up to inside. And so to me that's the strategy is, is how to um, you know, craft content or craft an image that progressively builds towards, you know, like, yeah, this person's ideal, like vision of themself.
Emmanuel: But in a way, isn't that doing something similar to what I did, just slightly different where I came in with this idea of I wanna make you lots of content, you're coming into this idea, I wanna make you look the best you can. So we are putting our, because what I heard you saying was, what is it they want? And where my immediate question was gonna be is like, if I ask 'em what they want, they're gonna say the same thing, more money, more revenue, gimme something that's gonna make sales. And I always wonder how to answer that. But it sounded like you're not necessarily asking what they want, you're pulling out from them a very specific thing.
Kevan: I want to give my clients a lot of content. I want my clients, my clients, they have to be focused on what is the objective of this cycle of content. And depending on how much they wanna show up online, some people want to do the Gary V thing and they wanna, you know, have four to six posts a day on eight different channels. And if you want to do that, then fine. You know, we'll, we'll put together a, a structure where we can go incredibly granular in on, you know, this, on this one, you know, kind of topic or one narrative. And we'll basically do a deep dive and then break down the nuance of that deep dive. It's all, for me, it starts with focus and, and clarity. And so that's why I say like there, people are usually looking to personify a few ideals, you know, just a few ideals. And so having a structure that says over six weeks, we're going to reinforce these narratives or these ideals, um, in, in this way so that we come to this conclusion down the road. That's, that's how it has to be for me. Otherwise, it is, it's not targeted, it's not focused and it's not objective driven. It's more like, like dazzle and awe, you know, like, like kind of like a, I dunno, what was that? Desert storm, uh, mentality. Um, shock and awe or whatever. And, um, it's just incredibly inefficient. And it's hard to get it on an accord um, like that, uh, because like if you're giving them this range and this breadth of content, then they might not be feeling that or resonating with, you know, that tangent on this day. But if you really what are you trying to live up to? Who are you trying to impress? Like what are you really trying to personify? And we're going to make sure that everything builds towards that strategically over the next month or or six weeks. Cause I think that's about as long as you really wanna beat a single topic before you expand on it, and then you develop it to the next stage of, of whatever the, the objectives are. But everything has to build and for me towards that one thing that is, you know, critical. So I've got a, a really succinct, uh, example. And it is, I'm gonna have to read it off my screen here, but it says, so the proposal structure, we will strategically develop long, a long form piece of content that's broken down, And so this topic is forward thinking tech pioneers will benefit from embracing diverse talent as a way of achieving sustainable growth ecosystems and expanding their market reach. Here's why, how and what to do next. So, so for this client, yeah, he wants to connect, uh, or place, um, yeah, talent and tech driven, very specific, uh, sector in, in the tech sector. And so we're going to make a roadmap um, that encapsulates, um, like, like why he's uniquely placed, uh, to solve this problem. Um, what was, you know, the, the story of, of, of him gaining this experience. Um, what mistakes did he, you know, find along the way? Um, how do clients take and leverage his ability or his network, or the people that he places? Why is it to their benefit to, uh, to work with him over others? Um, what's the very next step that they need to do once they realize that they are on an accord with him? So everything, all of his content over the next six weeks in some way or another, will, will reinforce this objective of working with a very specific, uh, sector within the tech industry to, to place a niche kind of prospect and it'll talk about, it'll go to towards his values of like, why does he gravitate towards this type of prospect? Or why does he believe in them? Or why does this type of prospect, um, to benefit company culture? And that's why I say, you know, you don't really wanna necessarily go over six weeks, um, on one point because it gets to a point then it's like, okay, so like, like, what's next? Okay, we get it we, you know, we're with you. But in the interim, everything in some way or another, will tie back in to his primary focus, which is delivering X product to this market over this timeline for this benefit.
Emmanuel: Interesting. I'm wondering if you can confirm or deny, if I'm understanding this correctly, it sounds to me if I put it into marketing speak, it's basically you're building a campaign cause when we create a campaign, it's like, uh, we're having a, a march, it's Valentine's Day now, but St. Patrick's Day coming up, right? So for three weeks we want to have the emails, the social media posts, the website banners, everything cohesive looking, and we build all these assets in advance so that they're consolidated for the campaign. Is that similar to what you're describing with content?
Kevan: It's similar, but I would say that I approach things more so from the branding side of things. Um, and so for me, it's all about building relationships, building trust, um, establishing a certain perceived value. And along that road, then people, they become, they believe in, you know, their products or services, what you have to offer. And so for me, I don't really have an interest in, in marketing a product. Um, I, my interest is more in making people feel connected and feel like they, um, like they believe, or like they're, you know, like a fan or a supporter of, you know, either this person or this business. And so it's all, for me, it's about I'm, I believe in relationship building. I believe in connection. And once people, they, yeah, they, if they feel you, you know, like I feel like as a black American, you know, growing up, I was making, I made a, this is my, one of the next videos, I, I made a draft of it earlier. But like, we grow up and for us, you know, like we keep it real, you know, like, um, you don't fake the funk on the nasty dunk. That's what I was gonna put. That's a line I'm gonna use in my next video. But it's intrinsic to, uh, our upbringing. And so, um, there's a certain passion, um, that we have, that we connect with, you keep it base level. You keep it real. And I'm, I'm just straight up. And that's a, that's a, that's a very unique, um, thing that we have to offer to clients because if we can bring out that resonance, then, then people will, they feel, they feel my clients, because it's my objective is to get through the projection and get past, you know, who you're trying, you know, to purport and get to who you are at that core. Get that, get to who you're really trying to live up to and why that's important to you. And like, if you can bring that out of a client, then whoever resonates, um, with, with that, then they're going to, um, benefit from what that person has to offer. Because yeah, they're, they their resonance, you know, like. And so, yeah, I don't, I don't really look at it as like a, as a campaign or like, like pushing a product. For me it's like, like finding a way, yeah, to bring out what's at the core of a person. And that's, um, and that speaks for itself.
Emmanuel: That sounds difficult.
Kevan: Well, you have to have techniques. You know, like, that's what I don't go into, I don't go into, it's like we're going to use drones, we're going to use 360 cams. I go into it because like, I'm a creative and I, I've put so much time in cause I love it. You know, like, I love lighting, I love audio, I love storytelling. And I've used so many different techniques. And so when I work with a client, I go into it like, like, okay, like ideally this is how I would like to, you know, proceed or the structure that I would like, you know, but if it doesn't work, then I'm gonna use this technique and I'm gonna use that technique. And I'm really like flexible in terms of, um, how we get to that point. But we'll get to that point, you know, I'm gonna bring it out of you because every time I, you know, feel client either projecting or slipping into this, um, like this, this role that they play or whatever, you know, it's like, I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. Pause, you know, like, like, you know, we have to find a way to get them out of their own way essentially. And so like, yeah, I just, I just got a lot of, lot of techniques for getting people outta their own way.
Emmanuel: Can you share, do you mind sharing any, how, how do, how do you do that?
Kevan: One of the best is, um, is movement. So like, yeah, you're getting a person just to walk and, um, yeah, just getting 'em to walk and talk to the camera and, uh, and just, just, just ramble and just ask 'em questions and, um, get, get the camera off access, you know, like while you just have a conversation. That's one of the easiest and one of the best that almost always works is if you can just like, like get, get a person to not necessarily realize that the camera's on them and then just like speak from the heart, you know, extended and be like, yeah, it doesn't matter. This is all just the camera's rolling, but if we're not necessarily gonna use it, and you just, you get the most genuine, you know, like, like representation. And then when a person, um, when they see, or they like, when you're able to show them, like, see, this is the moment where you were true to yourself and you were impassioned and, and just like, wow. You know, like that, that sparked the fire. And then when they, they once they see it, then they have a relationship with it, and they're able to, it's like kindling, you know, and they're able to yeah to, to, to build off of that. But yeah it really starts off with like, like finding ways to get people out of their own way and to have a laugh and to not take it seriously. And then like yeah you create like, like, yeah yeah really transcendent yeah, yeah, pieces of content.
Emmanuel: I like, that helps. That gives a whole opening to the idea that is get them comfortable, get them out of their heads focused and yeah, you're right, there's techniques for that. Just have 'em moving. Just, hey, the camera's not just is rolling, but don't worry about it. But what you're trying to do is get them to remove the, because I have seen this happen where soon as the camera turns on, like you're sitting there laughing and you're joking, as soon as it turns on, they turn stiff and they immediately become, like you said, a projection. So that's very,
Kevan: Get ' em at an event. Get 'em at an event, you know, with like a 200 millimeter lens. And then just have them like micd up with a lab and just engaging in conversations and such that they completely, um, like there's no camera anywhere around. Cause that's the best, it's always the best is when people are just in conversations with their shoulders down talking about, yeah.
The things that they believe in about their business. And so, and then that's it. Once a person, if you manage to capture that and you can show that back to them, then it's like, it just clicks. And all of a sudden they're just, just like, ah. It's because it's not complicated, but just, we just have to get past like how we are projecting or expecting or wanting to see ourself. And then once we see how beautiful it is, when we just like, like resonate with that, that passion and, and our core, then that's something that yeah people that yeah, it's indelible and never go back, you know? It's like always connected um, yeah to that.
Emmanuel: I'm astounded because it sounds like you're doing more than just creating content. It's almost like in a way, like therapy in a sense, or even, yeah.
Kevan: That's why like my, my tag at the moment, what my tag that I've been going with since December is content coach. And it's like, yeah. Because I mean, I kind of like coach my clients on yeah how to personify, um, yeah yeah that, what's at their core. And yeah, that's it, you know, yeah yeah you very much so. It's very much so therapy, and um, and people that feel so empowered and, um, like showing somebody how beautiful they are and all of a sudden you know, like, like when somebody see, you know, their, that depth and, and their passion for something and just how much it moves people, you know? Yeah. It's, it's, it's it's good's thing.
Emmanuel: It's gotta be rewarding to see.
Kevan: Yeah it is. I love, that's something I love to, to do with people and to work with people because, people don't usually get that opportunity. And um, it takes, it takes trust. And so in a lot of ways it's kinda like a, a gift, you know, that you can give to people because it's like, if you put your trust in me, then like, here, thank you for putting your trust in me now I want you to see how beautiful you are and you will so that nobody can ever take away from you. You will always have that. And, um, yeah so.
Emmanuel: Wow, that's taken this whole being a creative thing to a whole nother level I never even thought of. That's amazing. Uh, and thank you for sharing that with me. That's, it's more, it is even more motivating to take it beyond the commercial purposes of, Hey, it's a business transaction. We're making content. You pay me for the content plan by he to, I'm giving you a gift and you're putting trust in me and we're creating something that helps you tap into you more of you. That's, it almost feels like a responsibility as well too.
Kevan: Yeah. I, I, I think that's a good way of putting it as well.
Emmanuel: Taking care of people. You're being vulnerable.
Kevan: It's important to me, like if I get a, if when I get a quiet, it's like I take it personal, it matters to me. And, um, it's like, I want you to see yourself, you know, like, like, like being, it's real and inspired and also captured beautifully. Um, I want, I want your, every, your competitors, everybody else, you know, like who's in your field to, to see pure artistry and inspiration when they see you. And they'll know that that's something they can never compete with. So they're just gonna have to go do something else. And, and every, I think we've all got it, like, everybody's got something very unique, something that they are the best in the world at. And yeah, it's just like, like finding a way of, of, of, of pulling that out and, and showing it in, um, in, in beautiful light, uh, captured yeah with, with excellent cinematography. And then it becomes transcendent, so.
Emmanuel: Transcendent. Wow. I'm sure anybody would love to have that experience. Like just the way you describe it. That's amazing. A transcendent experience tapping into yourself and personifying to your core who you are. You make it sound exciting, I love it.
Kevan: Yeah, I love it. You know, it's, I love it. I believe in it and I know the, I know the power of it. Um, and just, I know how liberating it is. Even for, like, for me, like I said, when I, when I create content and um, and I get an idea and I just do something just because I love it or just cause it's fun or because it reflects me and it's gratifying and and, and people. Yeah. They're just like, wow, that guy, he's not full of it. Actually, you know, like, yeah. He actually loves what he does or he believes in what he does, and it's like, yeah, you can connect, it binds you know? It's like you're not, you're not like trying to convince people or pull, pull the wool over their eyes. Um, yeah. Be true to yourself and then people will see that and feel that. And, um, yeah. You all, you grow and connect.
Emmanuel: Well, it almost seems like this is not a profession. Like I, I'd assume this was like, your work, your job, your profession. But this almost feels like, is it, this is a passion for you, right?
Kevan: Very much so. Yeah. I love it. But also, you know, I’m very expensive
Emmanuel: Let's not get it twisted. So you're still still a valuable service. I get it.
Kevan: Yeah. I help people, I mean, I give free, I give, you know, I, I do stuff with people for free, you know, but, um, like yeah, at the end of the day, yeah, like, yeah, I, I charge.
Emmanuel: Charge, yeah. But that was gonna be my question is like, what happens when you turn your passion into your profession and how do you balance the two, right? Because ideally, if it's your passion, like you, you could do it for free, but you got to eat, right? You gotta make a living. And how do you balance those two things? Because that was one of the things I felt like I'm over here making this painting like I talked about, and that was fun, but then I had to go to work the next day, right? Because I can't do that alone. At least I haven't figured out how to do that. So can you kind of describe how do you make both work and then even there's some people who do make it their profession and they get paid to do it, but they're not paid a livable wage doing the creative right. Or, they get tired of the, they lose their passion because of the, the profession. Now it's a job, whereas before it was fun. So how do you work through all of those challenges?
Kevan: It's kinda like laser focus in terms of, um, who I am looking to work with. Yeah. Who I see as an ideal client. You know, I think I've turned away, um, way more clients, um, in the past, uh, six months than I've taken on uh, and, and it's not necessarily just all about budget. Um, a lot of it is just like, well, I don't really want to do that, I could, but, um, yeah, it's not, it's not my passion. And then, you know, quite discerning in the same way that they can pre-screen people, um, with, uh, it's like, all right, well you're gonna have to pay for my time if you wanna, you know, if you want a 30 minute zoom call and, um, yeah, I do a lot of research beforehand and there has to be some kind of alignment in terms of values like this, this, this last, uh, like one I just took on. He, um, yeah, like I'm a bit expensive for him, um, and I can make a model where I invest a little bit less time and still give him something that's gonna elevate, uh, his brand. But what made me wanna work with him was his work ethic. Um, he had a post about, yes, he's done these, um, I wanna say it's called like a, I don't know, 70 Day Strong or something. I can't remember the name.
Emmanuel: Oh, 75 Hard?
Kevan: Yeah. 75 Hard. Yeah. And, uh, and he's like detailing, you know, kind of like stringent, you know, kind of like, like, like parameters and guidelines that he's followed. And I was like, wow, I really, I respect and admire that. And at the same time he is, um, you see his content and you can see the effort and that he is really looking to kind of maximize, yeah, his potential. Um, and he's not taking days off in a way. Um, and the, yeah, just seems to, yeah, just driven in a way that I really, yeah, admire. And so he's a bit hesitant cause I'm just like, I'm pretty sure his business isn't developed to a way, to a place where he can really afford me. But he on the other hand, is just like, ah, I'm going to, you know, be willing to pay, uh, considerably more than I was hoping to just because I believe in this journey that we're going on. And there's, there's some compromise, but for the most part, um, I'm just quite discerning and I just, um, I tend to attract people who can afford me, um, and I can see people who can't, you know, from far away. And it's like, if I'm feeling charitable, I'll help them. But otherwise, um, yeah, I'm, I'm, life was hard, you know, like I grew up hard and so, um, and so I'm just like, I'm not the most sympathetic person in the world. And so it's like, I find it kind of easy, uh, to be like, I'm sorry, but like, I'm sure you're a nice person, but this is not worth my time.
Emmanuel: Yeah. You just gotta be honest. Set those boundaries. Because if you're worth it, you're worth it. There's no need to compromise. And then how do you convince them? So maybe not convince,
Kevan: Ooh I don't convince people. I, even this dude yesterday, he was, I was telling him the prices and he was just like, oh, I'm not sure if I'm ready to, you know, invest like that. Cause I think that I probably could get there creating stuff on my mobile phone. And I'm like, yeah, I agree with you. You could get there creating stuff on your mobile phone, I have no doubt. You've got the work ethic and, and you're talented, Hey, you can get there. It's just a question of efficiency. Um, how fast do you want to get there? Because, you know, when we start working together, you have to ask yourself, do you have the, the infrastructure in place to deal with, uh, the influx in terms of leads and, and, and, and, and business. So if you are postured, if you're positioned to deal with the attention that comes from distinguishing yourself, clarifying your message and, and establishing yourself, you know, like with a really high, uh, value kind of resonance if you’re positioned to deal with that, then I think that it would be inefficient for you. I didn't even tell 'em about how, I think it was like, you have to make that decision for yourself. If you're in that position, then you know, like, here we are. But if you're not in that position, then you should start, you should do it on your phone because you can achieve on your, like doing it on your phone. I don't convince people, I don't, I don't do sales. Like people just inbox me and they want to work with me already, like people don't inbox me because they want me to sell to them.
Emmanuel: Interesting.
Kevan: I don’t sell, I don’t convince people.
Emmanuel: But somehow they've heard of you. So how, how are you,
Kevan: They see me.
Emmanuel: Okay. So you're doing things.
Kevan: Well, they see me on LinkedIn. Yeah. Yeah. Just, I, I create content and, um, they recognize, um, in the same way that, like you're the clarity of your microphone, um, this instantly recognizable that, that says that you are at a, at a standard and that you're not playing around. Yeah, I, I incorporate those elements into the content that I create. I only use the best equipment and I maximize the potential of it. Uh, it's like I brought a, I brought a red camera for a project last year, uh, just because to me, that last 2-3%, uh, difference is, um, it's not about the equipment, but if, you know, understand, then people will be like, oh, wow there's something, there's something in there, something about it. And so, yeah, the, the content that I create all the way down to the copy that I write, you know, it's like I don't do generic stuff. Yeah and that really resonates with my, with my target audience.
Emmanuel: Interesting. So it almost is like, I'm loving how it all reinforces itself. So you have your passion that you put into your craft, then you literally just share your craft and then people see that it's elevated and they come to you asking you for, like it’s all,
Kevan: I have fun, you know? Yeah. I'm having fun the whole time. I just, I crack myself up, you know, like, I love it. I just, I love the whole creative process and, and the conversations that it starts. So I love it when people get it, you know, like when they get my little jokes or like, you know, like just, I know the, the, the you know, just like the the joie de vivre. Just how much delight and, and, and communicating and, and getting a message across clearly. There's something that's for me, like when you really succinctly, are able to share a message that someone else can glean. Um, that's what's one of the, the most rewarding things in life. That's like, my content is based on that.
Emmanuel: And so I, I love that. So you're having fun. The client is having a good time cause they're, like you said earlier, they're getting to their core self. You're showing them a different side of themselves. But now you're talking to someone who's interested in working with you. Maybe the word isn't convincing them, maybe the word is communicating them. How do you communicate to them and earn that trust that you actually can elevate them beyond what they could do themselves or with another agency? How do you communicate that yeah, I'm the person that can elevate you.
Kevan: I don't know, I don't, I don't find that I've, I don't feel like I've ever had to communicate that. Um, people, yeah, people just know like, what, what I do is, it's quite different. You know, like, you can, you look at all my videos and you know, like, they're just not like anything other people are doing, but they're to a standard. That's something that people really, uh, gravitate towards. It's like it's unique but it's also polished and refined.
Emmanuel: And what I'm hearing from that is basically be unique. Like it is okay. You don't wanna make cookie cutter stuff for people because then you almost, it's like a signature and it's at a high standard. So being unique and being at an elevated level.
Kevan: And bring artistry. I think like that's why we're going, that's why I go back to like the, um, the quality of light, the quality of sound. Um, I'm not about a whole bunch of graphics and transitions. I'm, I don't think that's necessarily bad, but I think that's used to mask a lack of artistry. And so I shared a post today, um, this little video about this guy David Cole. He's a local photographer and he is, he must be about 60. And um, so he is like an old school photographer and I saw a post of his, that only got two likes and I was one of them. In this post, um, he had maybe either nine or 12 different subjects that he, uh, posed, um, for headshots. And I could see how just impeccably, uh, posed they were. And I know like as a, I started off as a photographer, I know how challenging it is, um, to, to work with subjects to do posing and he had a variety of posing and his posing, there was an artistry in it. It's just very masterful. And so instantly I'm just like, look, this is not somebody trying to pull the wool over anybody's eyes. He's crafting his image, um, in the style of the old masters. And, and, and so there, this, that's again, it's transcendent, you know, it's infinite, you know, like artistry. That's, I really, yeah. Every, everything I, things that I create are predicated on, on artistry, um, photo, like composition. And that's why you said you going to film school. Like yeah, that's super fantastic because, um, it tried and true, uh, techniques, both in terms of storytelling, lighting, composition, ratios. The right lighting ratios will just make your heart flutter. It's, it's an artistry and you just have to feel it and understand the nuance. And, uh, and it's something that I incorporate so people, they're not quite sure why, but they're just like, it's a certain beauty, um, in what you do. And I want to be a part of it.
Emmanuel: It even shows through, even just how you present yourself here. Like you mentioned my mic, but I immediately noticed when you came on Zoom. Okay. This is different. Your color, your look. How, how do you mind describing your setup? Like how do you get your zoom to look so good?
Kevan: This is, uh, uh, now you're making me uncomfortable. I use a DSLR. Okay. Or I use a mirrorless camera.
Emmanuel: Which one?
Kevan: This one is a R5, Canon R5.
Emmanuel: Canon R5. Okay.
Kevan: So I'm using a, um, a mirrorless camera with a prime lens. Uh, so I'm using a, a 1.4, uh, 24 millimeter, um, prime lens. And so it's, the image quality is impeccable. I've got a neutral density filter on it so that I can open it up all the way and shoot it at one four. So it gives that slight blurriness in the background or whatever. It makes me the central focus and it knocks down the light, the ambient light in the room, so that it's like a stop lower than my key light, which I've got a soft box here with a grid on it. And so it's not like spreading light all out and butchering it. So it's just like, like I'm softly lit by light, you know, that's just like, yeah, a foot and a half, two foot away from me. And um, and so yeah, I'm just using lighting techniques with superior optics. Um, and I've got this, I'm, shoot, I'm, I'm using a teleprompter. I've got a teleprompter. So you're actually on a screen down here, but it's reflecting up so that I'm looking directly into the lens of the, uh, of the camera. And so, like, all of these little elements together, it's like, uh, it's, it's like a little wow package, you know? Um, cause yeah, you're, you're not going to see this in any other Zoom calls, you're just not going to see it because there's very few people who take Zoom calls who are like so adept at photography and lighting. It's just, it's just like, it pretty much doesn't happen. And so yeah, distinguish yourself and um, and this is like, yes, my way of distinguishing myself. So don’t be telling everybody that. Yeah, it's IP. Yeah. That part is between us.
Emmanuel: Yeah. I'll keep it between us. Dang it. I was gonna say, that is a gem right there because I've not heard anyone talk about that teleprompter trick, but is it okay if I use the trick, the technique?
Kevan: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You’re good, you’re fam, y’know.
Emmanuel: You and me, we good. Like, because yeah, that's brilliant.
Kevan: There are too few people who are gonna go through the trouble of it either, you know, it's just like, it's cumbersome. It took me, what, 45 minutes to set it up, you know, like, I'm, I'm, I'm in this, I'm in this office. Um, and I've got a whole lighting kit here, like sea stand. Um, a super powerful light. Uh, I mean, I've got my podcast mic here, you know, so I could, you know, be speaking like you, but at the moment I'm just going with, uh, with this little mic here clipped on my shirt. Um, so yeah, you put it into trouble, you put it in the effort, but it's like the devil's in detail. That's what I was saying about that red camera getting the last year, just that last 2-3%. And then people are just like, like, wow, I've not seen that before. And it's indelible and, um, and that's how I approach my projects and yeah, that's what I want for my clients. You know, like I don't want good enough for my clients. I want my clients to have a likeness that like no one is seen and that nobody can compete with.
Emmanuel: You're motivating me cause I've, I went gearhead for a while. I was like, oh, I'm gonna be like I'm gonna upgrade my stuff. But I went the opposite route of artistry and went the gearhead route and like, let me get this, like I have my little Sony's ZV E10 and I got my Canon 80D over there and I got the 120D uh, aperture light over there. And I, and I went that route for a while and it was just like, just didn't feel right. Right. But now hearing what you've said about the artistry piece and elevating how you look and doing what, that last 2%, you're motivating me now to actually, alright, let me piece this together to where it actually makes sense. Because what I, what happened is I got burnt out. Got burnt out on that. Like it's just, you can just, just because you have the gear doesn't mean you can achieve the look. You can achieve the artistry, you can get the content. And that's why I was like, it's actually the skills and the passion that matter more than the gear. The gear will just sit in the closet and you can get more out of, you may as well just use your phone. Like that guy you were talking about, just use your phone you know.
Kevan: Yeah, at the, at the moment I'm just editing this, um, this lighting tutorial, um, that I shot that I filmed, uh, last week. And that is the way to really distinguish yourself is to put in the effort and understanding the nuances of lighting and yeah and if you can take that like in two, like with, with your clients then, and then if you can combine lighting with an understanding of like cinematography or optics, uh, then yeah. Yeah, that's, that's, that's something that I think will, that once you see it. And then color grading. Color grading is very important as well. But yeah, once you start seeing just true refinement, uh, when you nail it. Um, I even just, I mentioned this thing in my tutorial about how I had this idea, cause I like using backlighting with the sun with filters and then, and the lights and it's just a light, it's a look that you almost just never get, um, outside of yeah, films. And I had this idea like, Ooh, I'm gonna use the sun at the backlight. And I set it up and then did these photos and nailed it exactly what I had, like in my vision. And not just that, but I intuitively had all my settings on the lights right because I've worked on it so much over the years. But I understand the ratios and the time of day and the angle of the sun and the power of the light that I was using. And so I was just as much, um, thrilled, you know, like by this fact that it's like, oh wow, I intuitively nailed all my settings as I was that the photo that the image came out exactly how I envisioned it.
Emmanuel: Yeah. That's mastery.
Kevan: Yeah. Getting to a point. Yeah. Put some time in, you know, so yes.
Emmanuel: Yeah, and that's how it's built is like the, the whole 10,000 hour rule. Like you, you wouldn't have been able to do that 10 years ago maybe, or 20 years. It's all the experiences led up to it. Because I hear that happen a lot where artists will have a vision in their mind, but just can't quite get it out and so it requires the skillset and the experience in order to be able to not just have the vision and the idea, but also execute on it. And that's the mastery piece.
Kevan: Yeah, I've gotta get out here. But before I, before I bounce, um, I was, this post that I put up must have been yesterday. Oh, yeah. Because I've got this new um, yeah. It is not even a passion, it's almost like an obsession. But design, you know, like I, to me, I wish I would've studied design, graphic design instead of photography, because graphic design is true magic, it’s true beauty to me. Um, but, um, and so I saw this post, the, that was saying where you are now is a result of, um, yeah the work that you put in 10 years ago and where you will be 10 years from now is a result of what you're putting in, you know, today. And so like I became very obsessed with, uh, of doing, uh, in Adobe Illustrator, um, making a graphic design layout to make carousel posts. I don’t know if you know what carousel posts are on LinkedIn, but yeah. So I've become like obsessed, you know, with like, oh, I have to make a one that looks like it was made by a proper designer. And I've studied Illustrator for years, I've done tutorials, but I could never quite wrap my head around it. And then all of a sudden I got become so inspired, you know, like over the weekend. And then I just, just sat there and just like put in like hours, 10 hours, 10 hours, 10 hours. And all of a sudden I nailed it, you know, and it's like, I got it.
Emmanuel: I can’t wait to see it
Kevan: And it's, um, it's just such a, I don't know, it's just, it's rewarding. Um, but yeah, it starts as bit of an obsession, yeah. You become obsessed with little elements of refinement and, um, and, and it's like 10 years from now, I am going to be an amazing designer who can couple that with yeah cinematography and lighting and photography and all the rest.
Emmanuel: Nice. So you mean it's not good enough to just take screenshots of tweets and, and put the,
Kevan: You can make a lot of money doing that. You know, I don't know how much you'll love yourself for what you've, you know, achieved by doing so. I don't know how gratifying and rewarding it'll be, but yeah, it's a means to an end, you know, if that's like, yeah. If that's why you in the game, but I'm like, I just have to be, um, I have to impress myself. I have to love what I do and why I do it and what, you know, what's the product is otherwise I'm, I'm not gonna be like, happy.
Emmanuel: Right. And can I ask one last question? I'd, I'd just love to know your story because, uh, you mentioned, I, I thought you were in the UK, but you mentioned being a black American and that growing up in a certain way, and I'm just realized you're way more complex than immediately I'd imagine so I’d love to know.
Kevan: I grew up on a farm, man.
Emmanuel: Really? What?
Kevan: A farm and, and just outside of Little Rock. Yeah. I grew up, I grew up like out, I was in the 1800s, you know, like wood burning stove and we were out in the hay fields getting hay for the cows. Um, like I worked, you know, from the time that I was like four, four or five years old I could carry something, and we fed our whole family. Um, like my grandfather, he had, I'll say like 15 kids, you know? And so, um, so yeah, we fed, you know, like droves of people, you know, from the farm in this old world style. And, uh, but then I was a bit clever, so I got a scholarship to go to uni, um, in Chicago. And um, yeah, down the road I ended up, uh, marrying this Norwegian girl. So that's why I live in the UK now. Cause like, yeah, we moved here 17 years ago and, um, so yeah, this is home. But at, in my heart, I'm a country boy from Arkansas.
Emmanuel: Wow, out in the UK.
Kevan: Yeah. It's wild, man.
Emmanuel: That's good. Well man, I, I so appreciate it. I'm so glad for your time. I thank you. Hopefully you got a little something out of it too, but I got a ton, I got a whole paycheck.
Kevan: Yeah. Good, good, good. Yeah. Nice. I enjoyed this. It's good to, good to chop it up. And, um, yeah, so I took it personal, you know, that I said that I would speak with you and so yeah, it's important, um, that we yeah, that we, that we got a chance to connect. So, um, it's rewarding and it's, yeah, it's nice to, to get your thoughts out as well. Um, so yeah, it's been rewarding for me as well.
Emmanuel: Oh good. I'm glad to hear that. Thank you so much.
Kevan: Yeah, no my pleasure. My pleasure. So, alright, well I mean, I'm here, you know, so drop me a line anytime and, um, yeah, yeah. You know.
Emmanuel: I will, I was actually gonna ask that if that's okay. Can I keep you updated on my progress, how I'm doing?
Kevan: Yeah, please do. Yeah, yeah. No, I feel invested now, you know, so, um, yeah, if you have any questions, you know, like yeah, if it's something I can help you with along the way, you know yeah I'm more than happy to help, you know, cause uh, yeah I appreciate your why. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's quite beautiful. It comes from a place of inspiration and, um, yeah, the fragility of life. Um, very, very genuine and and also impressed by your success. You know, it's nice to connect with people, you know, like yeah who've, who've done some things and it’s admirable.
Emmanuel: Thank you so much. I'm flat- Oh, I, I noticed one other thing about your setup. You have your Apple pencil. Are you also able to take notes or something?
Kevan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've got good notes here. And, um, yeah, yeah. Kind of, I love, I love good notes. I love taking notes. Yeah. Like information and, and like structuring it.
Emmanuel: And you can hand write, so I need to get that. And does it do good job transcribing, like actually taking your notes?
Kevan: It’s beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I'm pretty sure it has an option to take handwritten notes and then just turn it into, um, typed characters, whatever else, but yeah. I love the Apple pencil. Um, yeah, it was my, with my little good notes, um, I got an awesome system. Yeah, kinda. I'm not something I'm looking to productize, um, here over the next six months. Um, yeah, my content structuring pipeline, uh, kind of delivery system. I'm not really at a point where I can like, like share it cause it's, it's so, it's so dope. It's so, so, so dope.
Emmanuel: Well if you need a marketing agency at some point to help you advise you, we're here.
Kevan: Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. I definitely will. We'll, uh, I think I can, I can envision that.
Emmanuel: Um, but I interrupted you. What were you gonna say about the process? I, I'm so sorry I interrupted you.
Kevan: Um, well it's just based on, um, taking, like, it's, it kind of goes back to what I was saying before about taking a, like a, like a core focus and then like structuring a way of, um, supporting it's kind of based on pillars, you know, like, just like how do you build pillars that prop up, um, you know, what's at the very top, you know, what, what the ultimate goal is, and then how do you like, make it visual and something that a client can instantly see and, and, and, and automate essentially, um, so that it doesn't encumber them. I think it's important to have a, have a system and, and to be able to show, uh, clients, you know, just like, this is how we're gonna walk you through to this, um, to this ultimate, goal or, or reality or whatever so.
Emmanuel: I love it. Well, I can't wait till that comes out. I'll be your first customer.
Kevan: Yeah. Nice, nice one. Well um, yeah,
Emmanuel: So thank you. Yeah. So I'll keep you posted, especially on that idea. You really resonated with me, this idea of the passion and artistry and creation like that to me, really. And that's, I'll definitely keep you updated on how I'm leveraging that cause I'm obviously gonna stumble as I figure it out. But I'm looking forward to do, and if you could send me that post, you said, you said there was a guy where you could rec, you made a post, you recognized that, uh, the way he was posing there was something unique about it. I would love to see that. Uh, oh, you said you posted it so I can find it if I go to your LinkedIn?
Kevan: Yeah. Yes. My, if you go to my post, it's like my, my latest post, uh, on LinkedIn and I've got that carousel as well, the one where I was that carousel. Yeah. So excited about actually making something that looked, you know, halfway aesthetic. It's far from perfect, but, um, yeah, from where I was a week ago. I'm very, very pleased with my, my progress.
Emmanuel: Nice. I'll look at both of those. And I also loved the one you just, one I just saw anyway was you're redoing your portfolio post. And I could see there was a style, everyone was walking and it caught me. When you talk about movement, it's like, that must be what he's talking about with his uniqueness.
Kevan: Yeah, that's part of it. I definitely, but not, so I'll take one person and, and shoot them in four or five different styles including an interview off access, um, walking and talking like yeah, yeah. If you have a look, you'll see like, you know, five or six different styles of, of working with a client. And it's something that I think, um, at least for me, my, the way that I create, it's, it's critical. Um, like yeah, we cannot just sit here and like have you in a studio just talking, you know, like we gotta break it up and, and show different elements of, of you. Cause that's how you build trust is showing the, the full picture, you know, 360. Um, so whatever it takes to get all that perspective.
Emmanuel Eleyae: And what do you mean by off access? Is that where it's kind of shaky cam, moving?
Kevan: Did I say off access? Just like, um, like third person, you know, like, so say. So say you are talking directly to them, but the camera is off access, like looking, observing them having a conversation with you.
Emmanuel: Oh, okay. So it's not direct eye contact into the camera. Okay. It's like a B-roll third, uh, behind the scenes BTS kind of thing.
Kevan: Yeah, a bit.
Emmanuel: Yeah, a bit. Okay. Not quite BTS because BTS would be both of us, the interview and the equipment. But you're saying you're just kind of off looking at them as they talk to someone else.
Kevan: Yes.
Emmanuel: Okay. I'm sure there's more to it.
Kevan: It's so much to it.
Emmanuel: Yeah. I know, which yeah. We could, I would love to do this again at some point. I, I don't want to be presumptuous.
Kevan: Next time I’ll charge you.
Emmanuel: I know, right? Yeah. Next, for sure. It's good advice. Yeah. So thank you so much for this. I appreciate it. Anything you wanted to ask me or any other questions you had?
Kevan: Nah, nah, I'm good. I'm good for now. I gotta get, I'm supposed to go, uh, meet a friend now, so.
Emmanuel: Okay. Let me let you go. Thank you for your time.
Kevan: Yes. It's been a pleasure. Yeah, we'll speak again.
Emmanuel: Pleasure talking to you too.
Kevan: Have a good one now. Take care.
Emmanuel: That's it for another episode of the Eleyae Systems Journey To An 8 Figure E-Commerce Business podcast. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, please leave us a review. It costs you nothing and gives me and the folks who worked hard to produce this episode great feedback on how this content helped you, and that's why we do this to make sure that you get to that eight figure business even faster than we did. So tell us how we're doing and please, please leave us a review, and if you know of another e-commerce entrepreneur who could benefit from hearing this content, please share it with them. They’ll thank you for it. I'm your host, Emmanuel Eleyae, and we'll see you in the next episode.
